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moonID.net - Please discuss stuff about moonID hereDiscussions → Why 1h+shield such a underdog compared to 2h? Knightfight

Scoobaniec
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Posted Jan. 12, 2022, 11:54 a.m.

I mean let me see. I have to invest gold in extra stat unlike 2h and for what? To have 2h deal nearly twice as much damage as me when we have other stats compareable? Whats the point? No wonder everyone goes 2h option if they want to be competetive instead of getting farmed.

For some reason shield also reduces dex but where is the 2h penatly? Reduced strenght, fighting ability, parry? No none of those. Just stamina. Oh right 2h reduces dex as well.. too bad its useless anyway cause they dont have any defense to begin with and even in negative dex they dont take extra damage. The way game works rn is ridiculously unbalanced.

tldr 4 stats to invest instead of 5, one gear skill to invest all the way into weapon instead of having to spread into two reducing gear effectiveness futher due to stats scaling off your number gear (the higher base the higher scaling), armor overall being too weak in values compared to 2h. Actual wtf

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Grief
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Posted Jan. 14, 2022, 1:12 p.m.

2h gets advantage at low levels but more you level snb will be better having same stats

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surferbuffer
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Posted Jan. 14, 2022, 10:40 p.m.
Edited by surferbuffer Jan. 14, 2022, 10:43 p.m.

I have given it a thought and 2h are better at any level imo. As stats increase damage as a % of the combined low and high damage vallues. For example if a weapon does 11 - 15 then each point of STR will create a bonus of (11+15) * 0.01 = 0.26
The same stands for dex values and armor.

Now according to the KF wiki the best 2h weapon does 173 - 202 damage
The best 1h weapon does: 87-107
The best armor adds 57 - 86 armor for both 2h and 1h
The best shield adds 30 - 33.5

Now let's say that both knights have the same stats (55 which attributes to 50% of the combined values)

Bonus for 2h weapon (173+202) * 50 * 0.01 = 187.5
Bonus for 2h armor (57 + 86) * (50 - 27) * 0.01 = 32.89

Bonus for 1h weapon (87+107) * 0.01 * 50 = 97
Bonus for 1h armor + shield (30+33.5+57+86) * 0.01 * (50 + 13 - 15) = 99.12

Total stamina for 2h: (55 - 12 - 32) = 11
Total stamina for 1h: (55 - 17 - 12 -12 ) = 14

Extra +20 parry for 1h.

So all in all
The 2h would deal 360.5 - 389.5 damage and have 89.89 - 118.89 armor
The 1h would deal 184 - 204 damage and have 186.12 - 242.12 armor

This means that subtracting armor (min damage - max armor --- max damage - min armor):
2h would deal damage between 118.38 - 203.38 (Avg 160.88)
1h would deal damage between 65.11 - 114.11 (Avg 89.61)
1h would get about 1 extra attack

Now if the stat numbers were higher like in the 200s - 300s (like in higher levels) the +20 from parry becomes less relevant and the 3 point difference in Stamina will not generate much of a game changing experience.

So I believe 1h is a no go for the time being.

Source: https://kfwiki.arcadewelten.eu

Scoobaniec
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Posted Jan. 16, 2022, 11:59 a.m.

Thats not how any game work in existence. You either play on a equal field or you play underpowered stuff from get go unless theres at some point a high major power bump which is not the case here. And even if it was you need to reach it first. Besides what level is considered to be high? Im sitting at 61lv tank mode (53 one hand weapon full sharp with 130 armor) and 2h people with weaker stats have no issue cutting throught me

Surferbuffer also did a calculation here so even if you get access to all items theres no point to use 1h as the shield doesnt make up defense wise for current 1h damage.
Also like how long this game been out, for how many years already? Why is it still not brought up in line? I used to play this game over 10yrs ago as 1h, it felt horrible so i slowly changed to 2h and i finally stood a chance vs other people. Slowly after ive decided it make no sense and dropped it. Am i supposed to move into 2h again cuz devs dropped ball on balance creating a trap for new players?

surferbuffer
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Posted Jan. 14, 2022, 10:48 p.m.

You are probably right. I have replied to Grief with a more detailed mathematical analysis on the matter.

vladu
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Posted Jan. 16, 2022, 1:58 p.m.

And do not forget another 2H advantages:

1H have to pay much more coins for premium equip. 2H needs only a weapon.

2H has astronomical advantage in the battlefield right from the beginning of the game. "Normal" 1H is not capable of defeating high-exp 2H zombies and sometimes can defeat only equal 1H zombies (or 0-exp zombies).
2H can almost always do battlefield very easily (against 1H zombies).

Why all this unbalance?

Of course "everybody knows that now". But new player here will invest a lot of time and money only to see this "bug" (after some time of playing the game) and either delete and restart or continue in his painful endeavour (and rather pay more to at least keep up the pace with two-handers).

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Scoobaniec
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Posted Jan. 26, 2022, 10:24 p.m.

Oh right totally forgot about that one especially the battlefield thing where i can barely win with 'evenly matched' people. Meanwhile i observe 2h user who with worse stats progress faster than me (not to mention i cant win vs him).

Unless they roll a balance im done supporting the game and even playing at this point bc im fed up. Waste of time and money. No wonder why its dead

ga_ning5
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Posted Sept. 22, 2022, 5:53 a.m.

Yeah it's true 2H get a massive advantage over us 1H players, but there is one thing we can all agree on!

We look wayyyyyy more cool than they do. Cool armor, cool shields. We put way more work into our knights and didn't cop out for an easy advantage. Maybe one day the devs will nerf 2H but for now lets appreciate that we have glowing armor lol

Silitas
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Posted Sept. 22, 2022, 2:55 p.m.

Hi :) i totally agree with you, i don't want to be the best just becouse i wear 1H, i only would like that the game will be balanced.
I put all my effort in parry and dex so i can take less damage and more parry% but is hard!

It's true that the 2H until hight lvl hasn't defence but they have to much damage for me.

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