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moonID.net - Please discuss stuff about moonID hereIdeas → Balance issues

Rainald
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Posted Feb. 22, 2021, 6:15 p.m.

Hello, rather than a problem i wanted to point out something about the balance

as you know when a knight places more than %50 of their total skill points to armor skill they get a debuff which reduces DEX bonus and when the percentage goes up to %66 of total skill points, this debuff increases for turtle builds, this cuts off A LOT of defence in late game, meanwhile 2 Handers are just so broken that everyone is playing 2 hander, why ? because there is no debuff for STR when you put all skill points on 2 handed skills

This is not balanced from my point of view, if playing only armor with 3 skill points on one handed and rest on armor gives you HUGE debuff, then 2 Handed knights should also get a STR debuff

Here is one of my stat comparision with a 2 hander knight

The enemy knight has ocean blade which has 15-19 damage and 2 soul stone sockets with +2 attack damage, at total this makes 19-23 damage WITHOUT the STR stat bonus now lets add the str bonus

The STR of this two handed knight is 35 with all the buffs from amulet and rings, it is 35

...and how much bonus damage this 35 str give ?
+10.20
Ten.Point.Twenty
The total damage is 29.20 - 33.20

13 level 2 hander knight with 29-33 damage, is this balanced ?

Now i have a 12 level knight with all armor skill on it
30 armor skill with 16 Dex points lets calculate the defence

Base defence (Only equiped shield and armor ) is 8 - 11.50
I have 16 stat points on dex and it gives only +1.91 on defence

...+1.91...

how is this considered balanced ?

35 STR gives 10.20+ damage
16 DEX gives 1.91+ defence

I have nearly half stat points on DEX but i do NOT even have the QUARTER of the attack bonus its like reduced by %90

Turtle builds deserve a DEX buff or two handers MUST get a debuff

The server is full of two handers because everybody knows two handers stomp other builds easy
High damage + high damage bonus from STR = easy win Just check the server INT 5 literally %90 of the players play two handed, there is only 2 players with turtle build (one of them is me i guess ) and there is actually like 10 players who play armor+one handed

I just hope you can do some arrangements with the killing the beauty of differences, nearly every knight plays two handed, there is no difference, the game is nearly in a point where everybody has the same playstyle

This game has a lot of potential:

2 handed - 2 handed with low armor skill - 2 handed with high armor skill - 1 handed only - 1 handed with low armor skill - 1 handed with high armor skill - Turtle

...but only 2 handed is being played and the reason is obvious as i stated above
Huge stat bonus and armor players have HUGE debuff, it is like giving 2 buffs to two handed players, one for their own stat bonuses and the other one is dex is heavly cut

What i recommend is :
1-Giving nearly same amount of DEX debuff to 2 handed players on STR
2- Making ALL 2 handed swords require more skill points (example : ocean blade require 31 skill points,make it 50-60-70, or something, you decide just balance it )
3- Lowering the DEX debuff in BIG amounts,( NOT like +%0.5 more defence points for each dex YAAAY ! this literally changes nothing.)
4- Similiar to #2, REDUCE the skill point requirements for ALL armor and shields (example Lined leather armour requires 48 armor skill points, make it 20 or 21 or 22 or 23 ..... again you decide, you guys are responsible for the balance
5- Increase the base defence of armors and shields ( same example 9-13 linen leather make it 13- 15 )
6- Reduce the base damage of 2 handed weapons 15-19 ocean blade make it 11- 14 .... 12-15 ( Dont cry 2 handed players, you still have HUGE STR buff...)
7-MIX SOME OR ALL OF THESE TIPS

I am open to all advices and recommendations, i just want to see diversity and BALANCE in this game.
Ask yourself, do you seriously enjoy seeing 2 handers everywhere ?

Show comments (1)
ardonshen
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Posted April 16, 2022, 7:38 p.m.

Dex and Armor/Shield bonus was nerfed fifteen+ years ago because of the "Turtle Builds". I'm a bit fuzzy on the details because it's been so long and the old forums are now gone, but the reasoning was the same: Everyone was doing Tank builds and 2-Handers were left out in the cold. It also had another problem which was the constant Draw/Undecided battles. Needless to say things were ugly, and quite frankly it didn't fix much as the issue has remained the same.

Balancing will always be an issue.

From your examples you will maybe solve the debate between two handers and tanks, but what about hybrid builds? The mix builds you listed will 100% run into the same issues as you are facing now with 2-handers, only difference is the problem will be shifted to tank builds, like it was all those years ago when Tank builds are winning with a 3 point skilled dagger against 2-handers while they took no damage.

Personally, I don't believe there will ever be true balance because the game is rather simple and works entirely on math. The build that yields the greatest number is the winning formula. Plus the other idea has always been to get you to spend money in order to buy premium items so you can contend with other players.

From a game developer's perspective, they will not see the issue being a balance one. The game has a winning Meta and that is 2-handers. You choosing not to go that route is entirely on you, though I entirely get your point.

Rym
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Posted Feb. 23, 2021, 4 a.m.

I am very happy to see this post. I have been thinking of writing something like that for a few days, however I think that here it mainly covers what I had to say.

Personally, I also find it ridiculous that all the players are playing in the same way; naked wielding great swords...

Something needs to be done to balance the game and make other build playable.

I think something I need to add is that 2h weapons scale up to 576 in skill. When the 1h only have weapons up to 429 in skill. I think 147 skill points make a big difference in the quality of weapons. And what is the greatest strength of the 1h is their armor tand they only have armor up to 274 skill.

In general I think that you can see that there is a problem with this, I mean 90% of players (or I think there are more) are full 2h...

Show comments (1)
Rainald
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Posted Feb. 23, 2021, 8:42 a.m.

I call this situation '' game in coma''

its like the game keeps existing but with obvious balance issues it lacks many aspect one of which is balance and diversity and gameplay style

My main concern is this game should be like ROCK - PAPER -SCISSORS

Turtle should have a advantge over two handed

Two handen should have an advantage over one handed with low armor

One hander with low armor and one hander with high armor should be decided by stats as they are relatives for builds

''My main concern is this game should be like ROCK - PAPER -SCISSORS''

OR maybe NOT
we can change the game play as we like, is it hard to change stats skills buffs and debuffs and adding items or changing their requirements of skill points ? Maybe, i dont know about coding and game desing BUT this does not mean it is imposible. What i know is good gameplay and having fun, and that should be the inspiration

and so on, if these tips are useless we can came up with new ideas i am not the one to decide everyone can contribute and please do...

I can come up with new ideas every minute feel free to contact,in any problematic situation my brain is like a machine of mass production with low prices and fast delivery amazon combined, i can make you a spaceship from a piece of paper and believe me elon musk would be jealous,sitting in a corner crying about his space ships going SkAd00sh POW !
(Love you elon jk)

But currently game is like this :

TWO HANDER >>beats>> turtle, one hander, high armor 1 H , low armor 1H,2 handen with armor, goku , master oogway, super mario, Thanos, That hero with immortality skill from league of legends ( Angry guy with spinning with huge sword ), Bruce Lee, Chuck norris........aaand obivously,fun...

Rainald
avatar
Posted Feb. 23, 2021, 8:42 a.m.

I call this situation '' game in coma''

its like the game keeps existing but with obvious balance issues it lacks many aspect one of which is balance and diversity and gameplay style

My main concern is this game should be like ROCK - PAPER -SCISSORS

Turtle should have a advantge over two handed

Two handen should have an advantage over one handed with low armor

One hander with low armor and one hander with high armor should be decided by stats as they are relatives for builds

''My main concern is this game should be like ROCK - PAPER -SCISSORS''

OR maybe NOT
we can change the game play as we like, is it hard to change stats skills buffs and debuffs and adding items or changing their requirements of skill points ? Maybe, i dont know about coding and game desing BUT this does not mean it is imposible. What i know is good gameplay and having fun, and that should be the inspiration

and so on, if these tips are useless we can came up with new ideas i am not the one to decide everyone can contribute and please do...

I can come up with new ideas every minute feel free to contact,in any problematic situation my brain is like a machine of mass production with low prices and fast delivery amazon combined, i can make you a spaceship from a piece of paper and believe me elon musk would be jealous,sitting in a corner crying about his space ships going SkAd00sh POW !
(Love you elon jk)

But currently game is like this :

TWO HANDER >>beats>> turtle, one hander, high armor 1 H , low armor 1H,2 handen with armor, goku , master oogway, super mario, Thanos, That hero with immortality skill from league of legends ( Angry guy with spinning with huge sword ), Bruce Lee, Chuck norris........aaand obivously,fun...

p_b
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Posted March 8, 2021, 2:28 p.m.

I mentioned this in another thread under discussion, but in later levels builds the 1H shield combo out defenses a zerker as there comes a point where the STR stats are so expensive, but the bonues for the 1h combo really stack up.

Then it is an FA/PA battle - which given the 1H PA bonus normally ends one way....

Alomak92
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Posted April 5, 2022, 2:05 p.m.

Hello, the post is old, but the balance problem remains.
One idea I have would be to implement the possibility of adding soul stones to armor or shields, which would increase the item's base defense, in the same way that soul stones increase the base damage of weapons. I believe that this simple implementation would improve the game more for those who choose to play with 1H, armor and shields, without messing with the damage multipliers.

Another option would be to increase the chance of taking critical damage to players who don't prioritize AGILITY, an ability that normally 2H users are negative as they never prioritize. So, the lower the AGILITY level compared to the other opponent, the greater the chance of critical damage for that player!

RogerKristensson
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Posted July 23, 2022, 9:41 p.m.
Edited by RogerKristensson July 23, 2022, 9:42 p.m.

Critical strike räcker för att balansera mot sköldpaddor. Som det ser ut nu finns ingen fördel alls att lägga poäng på rustning.

alla som inte kör tvåhands med köp av ädelstenar går stora svårigheter till mötes.
Finns inga andra vägar så som spelet är byggt.
För att få balans skulle man öka parad ännu mer på sköldarna och minska minus sidorna på skölden.
Även dra upp defensiven lite grann. VIll man lägga på lite efter kostnad för att få det så absolut. Men just nu är det total obalans i spelet. Hade hoppats att man skulle förändrat spelet något under alla dessa år. Men ingenting livar upp spelet.

Riktigt tråkigt.

"Critical strike is enough to balance against turtles. As it stands there is no benefit at all to putting points into armor.

anyone who is not two-handed with the purchase of precious stones faces great difficulties.
There are no other ways the way the game is built.
To get balance, one would increase pared even more on the shields and reduce minus the sides of the shield.
Also pull up the defensive a bit. Do you want to add a little after cost to get it so absolutely. But right now there is total imbalance in the game. Had hoped that they would change the game somewhat during all these years. But nothing livens up the game.

Really sad"

farro.ant
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Posted Aug. 7, 2022, 6:49 p.m.
Edited by farro.ant Aug. 8, 2022, 5:50 a.m.

go 66% armor and you win

Silitas
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Posted Sept. 1, 2022, 1:18 p.m.

Hi, im a 1H and armor player, im not a turtle but i don't like the agility debuff, i think that the improved chance of critical hit against 2h is enought to balancing the game with the expansive cost of improvement of strenght

please Moon ID make something :)

Silitas

ga_ning5
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Posted Sept. 28, 2022, 3:27 a.m.

This fix would be huge. It is insane the amount of effort and work I put into my 1 hander to be destroyed by 2H that have the same or lower stats with less effort. Either nerf 2H players or give us 1H an advantage somehow

ZuTyy- CRATR.games
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Posted Sept. 28, 2022, 1:28 p.m.

Hello together!
This topic is known, thanks for the post, to get better insight we have released an update to better evaluate all combat reports in the future.

This allows us to change a little bit the one- and two-handers. You have to be very careful though.

As soon as capacity is available we will take care of the problem.

Greetings
ZuTyy-

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