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Is it possible to know exactly how the bs works? In particular I would like to understand who generates the undead, how long each of them remains alive on the bs, if it is true, as it seems, that they are generated on the basis of real players who enter the bs, or they are random, if it is possible to prolong the residence time of some types of undead on the bs. I would appreciate an official answer as well as personal opinions because it would be useful for everyone to know exactly the rules of the game in order to better organize themselves and also evaluate their fairness and transparency.
I would suggest inserting the information I requested and any others proposed in the "Introduction" of the game together with the already existing ones.

please just post a topic about it, in all languages, it doesn't make the answer any faster, it just makes other things wait, see here:
https://moonid.net/forums/topic/4728/

thx

Hoping to please non-German-speaking players who are not familiar with the translation, I insert Patty's answer below:

Good morning Vendetta7

It has already been written here how the generation of the NPCs works.
From KP 1 - KP99
>who creates the undead,

which generates a script, or which are executed by deleting the expired NPCs and generating new NPCs.

whether it is true as it seems that they are generated based on real players entering the BS or whether they are generated

this is no longer correct, this was changed on April 24th this year.
here is the quote from me and the developer: (unfortunately can not link directly to it)

Hello everyone,
our developer imports a new NPC-templates version today, ie. significantly more NPCs should become available in the coming hours.

But as I said please note that it will take a few hours until you notice it.

Kind regards Patti

And here is the registration from the dev:

It should also be noted that:

The NPC templates were generated based on skill/attribute values ​​from players who weren't on the battleground.

This should hopefully provide a few more single-handers, but since they're generally outnumbered, it probably won't completely solve the problem.

But since there are generally not that many players for the ax pencil from KP 65, it might already be enough, we'll see :-)

It should also be noted that the templets also take into account inactive and deleted players.
The reason for the change is already there, it should bring more NPCs again, especially one-handed NPCs, of course it also brings the other NPCs like two-handed with it, but the background was more one-handed, but as the developer already wrote, they are generally outnumbered which of course makes it more difficult to have them created.

because it would be helpful if everyone knew the rules of the game,

Do you really mean rules of the game here? Because everyone can read them at any time in the game and should hopefully know them, or did you mean the game instructions? (I think almost more)
Yes, you could certainly write books in there, but unfortunately it has also been shown that even if there is important information in it, e.g. how often can be attacked in a war that not even everyone has read 😉
However, as you can see from the quotes, we try to work as informatively and transparently as possible.
But if necessary, such changes or information can also be included in the reference work where interested players would be more likely to look.
I hope I haven't forgotten anything and was able to clarify where the templets of the NPC generation are based.

Kind regards Patti

It is said that starting April 24th, the undead will no longer appear as copies of the living.
In my opinion, this is not the case, since exact undead copies of players Nifthy and Furious, two banks of Int-1 servers, have existed for a long time. Everyone can see that they have exactly the same armor, sword skills and equipment.
Abilities in terms of strength, dexterity, etc. They are very similar.
Insert references:

https://pl11.knightfight.moonid.net/battleserver/fight/AykgupQOPt7mKLUv_SCsdQQARAe8NzgeAAwBAFLSQMYA2AFZAcIASgJGArxQAQMDaABBAE8AUblAdR4CgOFAAACuAcoA2QD2Ac0BnEwBAAMpADIAbwBJAFQAVABqo0AFAKBuQLnX-GSxg0f0knWXXIgUmjB4I7J1VPkqsxULWvryd-JyuqcoogoAIBAXYuBaw22fItepiwDQctFAMACgBQ/

https://de8.knightfight.moonid.net/battleserver/fight/A42t0w9YY0PlKLUv_SCqHQQA9Aa5bUETAA4AoI5AAAB6AAUAVQCnAKYAvC0AAAINAA0AAQAGAAMAAwBfatCuEQLAFOJAAbwA0AC6AYcBnEwBAAMpADIAbwBJAFQAVAAU2vhkfKP7nwKl3pLb9_jov6xsuiR5tbi4VgBd9hfvTl1A15EHAG9A_JIDQE4JzKXigQsDQAs/

https://pl11.knightfight.moonid.net/battleserver/fight/A6QHZTnZYUZhKLUv_SCwfQQARAe8NzgeAAwBAFLSQMYA2AFZAcIASgJGArxQAQMDaABBAE8AUcg9dabZ3EBYAkUBHQHmAJABkAH8JTgAbwBvAGEAYwBJAFAAUAC6pEAFACBvQP7V-GSxXp2EuTVCuoNze1BwTzg24w70Yf4dLy2KTR1gCzjhkAsgUImMAwjEiaHWalewN5e-BkBrtGAAXQs/

https://de8.knightfight.moonid.net/battleserver/fight/A4ou5hLzlw4EKLUv_SCuJQQA5Aa5bUETAA4AoI5AAAB6AAUAVQCnAKYAvC0AAAINAA0AAQAGAAMAAwD42NGuvgF93kBYAl8BEAHaAEkBVwH8JQEDA10AYQBjAEkAUBjg-GSaQLj8j61X60axsTS38N43NiOE9Mx5W10jMQU3WW6uqQgAKwF9SQDAyEWT6jCXsgdaDAAt/

Yes, I was referring to the guide, which I think should include this information as well.

Also, please can you tell me which post already has the answers to my other questions as I'm having trouble finding them?
Thanks

Hello Vendetta7

Lets see if we can help with your questions regarding the BG.

who generates the undead

So as already stated it is not a who but a what that generates the npc's. It is a scipt.

how long each of them remains alive on the bs

Exactly the same time as the time possible for real players.
Some NPC's stay 3 days, some stay 4 days, some stay 7 days. Just like a free BG session, a 150 MC's session or a 250 MC's session.

You can see this information by visiting the npc's individual profile.

Example:
Battle session is valid: 2023-09-01 08:03:05 - 2023-09-08 08:03:05
Offensive battles: 0 out of a maximum 400

if it is true, as it seems, that they are generated on the basis of real players who enter the bs, or they are random

As stated also before this is no longer the case since 24/04/2023.
Now NPC's are generated based on players who are on the home servers and not on the battleground. NOTE: it can also include inactive or deleted players.

if it is possible to prolong the residence time of some types of undead on the bs

No this is not a possibility. Like I said before, you have different npc's with different session times (does not matter if 1H or 2H it is the same for both just like real players's sessions). After a time period the npc's will be deleted from the BG and fresh ones are created.

Hope this helped a little ;)

Thank you for your time but it seems to me that you cannot or do not want to understand what I am saying. Did you see the references I put?
How can you insist that there are no undead copies of the living? It seems to me to deny the evidence.
Furthermore, perhaps I explained myself poorly regarding the duration of permanence of a particular type of undead: I am not referring to the single undead who clearly follows everyone's rules. I am referring to the typology of the undead. That is, how long does the type of undead identical to the one generated equal to nifthy for example, remain in the bs?
I perfectly understand that what generates the undead is a script (I've been playing bs since it was born) and that it should generate them randomly, but from what I see it seems to me that there could also be... other possibilities. That's why I asked those questions.
And in any case if the answers are in the posts why am I not told which ones so I can read them?

Just a question - and I don't intend to be confrontational, so please don't take it that way...

But why is it important to know the things you are asking?

What actual purpose does it serve you to know whether a zombie is based on a "real server" player (who may or may not be on the BG currently) or procedurally generated with stats appropriate to the BE range of the player for their targets?

Yes there are some trends that we can learn - that higher FA/PA helps; but only if your base stats are also "good" for your BE range.

Eg you can't expect to go up against some-one significantly higher level BE than you, unless your FA/PA values are so massively high that you have a sucess rate that is guaranteed - which would be a tough build to make imo....

Same way that you can have huge primary stats but very low FA/PA and high player level but be "weak" - these are the targets I aim for on the BG myself..

Not being able to comment on what Patti writes, I am forced to add a post.

Dear Patti, I'm not completely crazy yet. I have NEVER written in the "ideas" section. I don't know who moved it there. My post was in the "discussions" section.
In fact, mine is not an idea but a question to which I still have not received an answer.
It would be embarrassing for me to think that you want to make me look like a fool.
I now ask the question again: can administrators manage abandoned or created characters, such as bank or other, to make the game more engaging?
The answer can only be yes or no. I don't understand what the problem is with answering.

I am waiting for answers to my questions. Thank you

I don't know where you got the term bank from - bank in KF land on the eng servers at least is to buy equipment to stop one from gold leaking.

A farm is some-one that builds an account and leaks gold for their (and other's) gain as I know it.

If you think the forum/discord mods have access to anything on the back end then you're sorely mistaken - they're players just like us.

Admins might have some back end access, but I expect there's only very specific things they change to avoid complictions - so they would be essentially just players like us.

IMO there is zero need for an account to be "played" by an admin if it were abandoned - if we ignore the fact that players come back after years away and want to play their own accounts - Because if any-one wants to set up more than one account on a server you can with unique email addresses and the caveat that you use neither account for your own direct gain. (and this is monitored)
This is how family members play on the same server for example.

But when talking aout the BG side of it - it is mostly procedurally related specific to the player as per the new update - you go up a BE, the zombies you see will not be quite the same for the same BE rating as they were before.

Thanks for your opinion. I am still waiting for answers to my questions from administrators or moderators.

I don't understand why there isn't an answer to my questions which for convenience I'll report here again:

1. Do you confirm that it is not possible for administrators or moderators to manage one or more characters by using them as weak characters who play to lose gold or otherwise to make the game more engaging?

2. How long can the type of undead (not the single undead) identical to the one generated, for example starting from nifthy, remain in the bs?
   That is, for example, all those undead currently present for example with be from 75 to 77 with these skill characteristics:

armor 600
one-handed weapon 627
two-handed weapon 25

Reply to pb:
Dear player, I don't understand why you are so interested in my question. It seems to me that you have already commented on the topic and I thanked you for your opinion. I also see that you are aware of what happened on the bs but I wonder if, with your final statement, you are speaking for the admins/moderators or is it still your opinion. I hope it's your opinion (the opposite would be strange) and therefore I await an official explanation if they are able to give it.

And I already replied to you on the same post.
You keep circling around the answers but you can't give them. Why? What's wrong?
Yet it is not a difficult question:
How long can the type of undead (not the single undead) identical to the one generated, for example starting from nifthy, remain in the bs?
Your constant evasive responses are not what I mean by transparency, clarity and fairness. Are there any topics that players shouldn't know about?

I don't know what I haven't answered in the German section of your questions, or perhaps I don't understand what exactly you are getting at.
If I have understood your question correctly, the NPCS are randomly removed from the battlefield, so just like real players, they also remain one of the 3 options, 3 days / 100 attacks or 4 days / 200 attacks or 400 attacks / 7 days, but then it is random which option applies to the individual NPCs.

Greeting patti

There is no worse deaf person than someone who doesn't want to hear.
The question is clear, but you continue to pretend not to understand.
It is now clear that you do not want to answer questions that are evidently considered "uncomfortable".

I don't think your question is as clear as you think it is - because I don't understand it either - and English is my native language.

I don't think people are being obtuse because the question isuncomfortable.

A "type" of NPC as you seem to define them, are now based more closely on existing character builds on any of the KF worlds - whether drectly on the BG "now" or just chilling on their home world, inert.
This has been said repeatedly.

In order to get some alterations - our knights are turned into "templates" and then within the BE range that they exist, proceduraly things are changed - but they will always remain in the "right" BE that they were created from.

So I for example always see knights with 2H sword X or 1H sw + armour shield of YZ in BE range AA.
The soulstones, the stats the rings etc are often slightly different, but they are very close to a "real" knight who had been created and played at some point.

We don't know how the BE is calculated - that formula has not been shared & yes I've asked - so I don't think any of us know just how much/little variation is possible to a "template" in order for it to not exceed it's boundaries.

Which I think is what you mean by "type" here...

As for the trigger of when if you hit search they appear in your results - that is going to be utterly random - as explained a few times now too

I'll even extend it a little, and say - when you hit search different knights will get returned based on if they've been hit within the hour as well as the duration they might be around to remain active.

But an NPC called "fred" based on the Template of "Joe" is going to look very similar to the NPC called "Charles" who's also based on "Joe"; even if they were spawned at totally different times - and have a duration that's totally different in length.

If there are just not many knights on the home worlds that fall into the specific BE range you're searching for, then you're going to get all your results looking very similar because the templates available are limited.

CLICK HERE TO SEE SIDE BY SIDE IMAGE

So I took your examples and put them side by side. Where do you see that they are the same character or that they are a copy of each other?

Lets start from the beginning:
Strength:477 vs 435
Stamina: 242 vs 213
Dexterity: 260 vs 256
Fighting Ability: 550 vs 495
Parry: 507 vs 409

Where are they copies??

Next!
Level: 513 vs 553
Aligment: Knight of Light vs Knight of Shadow
Health Points: 35910 vs 38710
Damage: 1259.36 - 1281.36 vs 1156.4 - 1178.4
Defense: 0 vc 0

Copies??

Next equipment:
Sword: They both used the same weapon! It is a 1H sword from skill 467 and it is the last available sword in the game that can be bough with Gold.

(After that there is only one more sword available in the game, at skill 475 and it costs 3200 mooncoins)

Name of the sword is different, i dont see anything weird happening here.

Armour:Linean vest vs nothing
Rings:ring lvl 285 vs ring lvl 285. All other rings above this one are at the same level in terms of stats but cost more and increase your BE. I see nothing suspicious here. Player could have bought the last ring available at level 352? Yes but the stats would increase by 11 points each and BE would be extremely increased which is not great on the BG. neither for an NPC.
Amulet:both used amulete from level 183.

Is that why they are copies? Because they have the same amulet and rings? When we say that players are used as templates what do you understand from it? If you need to fit an NPC into a certain battle efficiency, you need to play around with equipments, stats and skills. The same way as a player trying to decrease his/hers BE will use older equipmentts on the BG. Some things will be of course the same but most will not as we can see from your own example.

Stones:Fire stones vs Fire + Holly
Stones are of different values to reduce battle efficiency.
Even though they both have a stone +19 and another one +6, the third stone is of different strenght and type. This fact alone can change your BE already and therefore, no copies. Template.

As to how long this NPC will remain on the BG, you can see it directly on its profile:
Duke Truman XXXIV. 04.10.2023 06:01:41 - 11.10.2023 06:01:41

Dear friend, I had already told you the things you highlighted (only in a quicker way). I'll give you my sentence:
"I insert the URLs of furious and its copy. As you can see, the weapons are also the same except for 1 stone. It's obvious that the skills in strength, dexterity etc are slightly different but this has always been the case."
The fact remains that rings and amulet are the same and both use the one-handed weapon despite having superior skills on the two-handed weapon. The skill difference between Furious and his copy is balanced in order to keep the two characters in the same BE range (around 70-77). Furthermore, as you know, the different levels of the NPCs allow you to insert and spread the NPCs themselves in a very specific BE range (for example around 70-77). Whatever their BE, however, these undead (NPCs) regularly lose their battles with the characters who attack them because they are objectively very weak for their BE. You can see who attacks them by checking the highscore. They are the ones who always get around 2000 experience points for every BS they do. Very high levels (more or less 350) of normal real players, (I mean players who play without losing gold voluntarily, which we all call banks or ATMs) could never have that BE (they are almost all from 94 upwards) and certainly they could never be defeated by players for example with level 240-260 and lower BE, such as those always at the top of the BS ranking.
Regarding the duration, what I said to your friend b_p applies: this is not my question and you are not answering.
PS I hope you don't come back to the fact that you don't understand what I mean by bank or ATM and that playing to voluntarily lose gold (not farm) would not be legal because I'm still waiting for your response on this...

Another strange coincidence,
the Furious player left the bs again and again his copies also disappeared (those with armor 0, one-handed weapon 610, two-handed weapon 932).
This further confirms what I'm saying.

Okay, maybe it's time to clarify some things, since my post back then has been linked and quoted here as well:

It is said that starting April 24th, the undead will no longer appear as copies of the living.

This is wrong, I never implied that. In April we just did a one-shot import of all the players of all the game worlds into the NPC templates with no change of any game code.

Right now, NPC generation is a timer service which runs every 30 minutes of inactivity, which is responsible for generating NPCs.

The service does the following in order:

1. Delete all obsolete NPC accounts (not those from npc_templates, see below) that no longer have an active battle session. Note that this is only garbage collection since the NPCs are already no longer attackable since the check for active battle session is done whenever an attack is performed.
2. Insert all the players currently on the Battleground into npc_templates (just for keeping it simple, in reality there are several tables, eg. npc_templates_user, npc_templates_weapons and so on).
3. Group all the BE values of the existing players on the Battleground and for each BE value, determine the amount of NPCs to generate by either the amount of players currently on the Battleground or at least 100 if less than 100 players are on the Battleground.
4. Actually generate NPCs, which is done one by one by using the values from npc_templates and then randomly add/subtract attributes until they match the given target BE. If that fails after 100 iterations, no NPC will be generated for the current generation step (eg. if there are 99 NPCs ahead to be generated they will still be tried).

What we did back then in April was just to populate the npc_templates tables with data from all the game worlds, because we had complaints about missing NPCs for certain BE ranges/builds and even though it's just a one-shot solution, this was something that we could do to improve the situation without extensive changes of the NPC generation algorithm.

Speaking of the latter: We already have a WIP implementation of a new generation algorithm, but there are a few roadblocks left to solve so we decided to postpone it until we find a good solution (which we haven't yet 🫤).

So again and TL;DR: There was no code change for NPC generation in April 2023.